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Author Topic: Fouled plug(s) .. Welcome to ownership!  (Read 6746 times)

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spyingpotato

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Fouled plug(s) .. Welcome to ownership!
« on: December 19, 2010, 12:48:02 PM »
Finally! A nice day that I'm not working on. First day since I got it home. And on startup it ran really rough. I let it idle at 1k for about a minute, then ran it up to 2k, leaning, for another couple minutes but it didn't clear.  worried about "morning sickness" I tried the mags, it ran worse on L than R.  So I guess I gotta find someone to clean the plugs for me now. :-\
Matt
Mountlake Terrace
'69 C-150

garygoodguy

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Re: Fouled plug(s) .. Welcome to ownership!
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2010, 01:01:55 PM »
The word of the day...Lean, lean, lean.  Unless your plane is of more recent vintage, it wasn't designed to run on 100LL.  Lean after start up until it barely runs, taxi at that lean setting,  do your run up at lean........but don't forget to go rich for take off.  I run my O-470 barely running taxiing out and back and have never fouled a plug. 
Your problem may be plugs or could be in the wiring harness or the mags.  Start simple  and clean the plugs first. 

davidh

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Re: Fouled plug(s) .. Welcome to ownership!
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2010, 01:38:13 PM »
Matt,

First of all, don't feel too bad, this is a common issue with 150s.  A few suggestions....

1. The way I've always been taught to "burn off the crud" is the following: Run it up to 2100 RPM, then lean it out until the engine starts to stumble a bit, then just BARELY enrich the mixture just a teeny little bit.  Let it run at 2100 RPM and very lean for a full minute or two (60-120 seconds), then go back to full rich, then power down to idle for a moment.  Run it up to 1600 or whatever you use, then try the mag check again.  This sequence has always resolved rough mags on runup for me.

2. Always, ALWAYS lean very aggressively when on the ground.  Immediately after startup.  Immediately after pulling off the runway following landing (part of "cleaning up after landing" - carb heat off, transponder off, landing light off (I always fly with mine on), flaps up, LEAN AGGRESSIVELY).  Anytime the engine is running on the ground and you're not taking off or landing or doing a runup.  Religiously.

3. Next time you change your spark plugs, switch to the equivalent model with the extended tip.  Not sure if your plane takes the same as mine, but I switched to REM37BY (Champion) plugs, and in nearly 10 years of running pretty much exclusively 100LL, have only had a slightly rough mag check a few of times, and the 2100 RPM lean burnoff trick always resolved that quickly.  I am totally sold on these plugs, they made a huge difference for me, and highly recommend them.  Note that these are simply plugs with extended electrodes (which supposedly get the business parts out of the worst of the lead), these are not the platinum tip plugs (which are substantially more expensive).  FWIW, the plugs for my 0200 are about $25 - $30 each.

Be careful when you put plugs in, especially the lower set, which can be a real PITA to reach - it's all too easy to cross-thread the little suckers.

Hope that helps - good luck!
David Herman
N6170T - 1965 Cessna 150E
Boeing Field, Seattle, WA

spyingpotato

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Re: Fouled plug(s) .. Welcome to ownership!
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2010, 02:10:33 PM »
Thanks guys. The last time it flew was the trip home from San Diego two weeks ago.  We did have a fouled plug condition after stopping for gas at Corvallis, but we cleared it just like you described, David.  Today the plug(s)  woulnd't fire at all after doing all that.   The EGT told it all. I had a thousand degrees for the first minute on startup, 1k rpm, running rough.  So I ran, it up to 1500 (not wanting a full runup so cold yet) and I noced the temp went to nil a few seconds after being at 1500 and stayed there even after leaning to it almost dieing. So I ran it to 2100 and leaned to a stumble for over another minute. Still no EGT temp.  When I pulled mixture to shut it down the EGT popped back up for a sec.  Hrm. I waited about a minute hoping for some heat soak.  Then I cranked to start without priming and it wouldn't start (I only cranked 2-3 seconds), so I gave it 1/4 prime.  It started, I rinsed and repeated with the same results.   I didn't even make it out of parking.

I need to go through the logs again and see when the plugs were last replaced. I also think they're gunked up from all the hot and high altitude flying it had all it's life in the SoCal desert. It's got the shivers up here.  ;)
« Last Edit: December 19, 2010, 02:12:22 PM by spyingpotato »
Matt
Mountlake Terrace
'69 C-150

R Kelley

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Re: Fouled plug(s) .. Welcome to ownership!
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2010, 06:03:42 PM »
So, I'm always curious when the conversation turns to plug fouling and the O-200. I know many have experienced the problem and I guess I'm feeling a little left out.

My Canuck has the O-200, I use only 100LL and cruise at 2500rpm, I'll admit that I add a capfull of Marvel Mystery Oil at each fill, but other wise I don't think I'm doing anything special. Abbotsford is essentially a sea level airport (190ft) and I don't lean on the ground.

Hmm, I wonder whats up?
Randy Kelley
1946 Fleet Canuck
C-FDDW

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tonyrob

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Re: Fouled plug(s) .. Welcome to ownership!
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2010, 06:25:28 PM »
So, I'm always curious when the conversation turns to plug fouling and the O-200. I know many have experienced the problem and I guess I'm feeling a little left out.

My Canuck has the O-200, I use only 100LL and cruise at 2500rpm, I'll admit that I add a capfull of Marvel Mystery Oil at each fill, but other wise I don't think I'm doing anything special. Abbotsford is essentially a sea level airport (190ft) and I don't lean on the ground.

Hmm, I wonder whats up?

I use Avblend  - and I lean - I don't have it either.
Avblend, MM, Snowmobile 2 stroke oil, - 100LL needs the additive.

Tony
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CJN

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Re: Fouled plug(s) .. Welcome to ownership!
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2010, 06:45:21 PM »
I use Avblend  - and I lean - I don't have it either.
Avblend, MM, Snowmobile 2 stroke oil, - 100LL needs the additive.

Tony
C-GICE

Tony,

Avblend is an oil additive.  How does that help keep the plugs from lead fouling?
« Last Edit: December 19, 2010, 06:53:15 PM by CJN »

spyingpotato

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Re: Fouled plug(s) .. Welcome to ownership!
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2010, 08:40:43 PM »
I've never had a fouled plug flying the club planes.  And I've never leaned.  Idle at 1k, that's about it.  MMO and other additives generally become the proverbial "ford versus chevy" argument from what I've read on them involving aviation.  I'm thinking TCP maybe in my future.  Though I DO have a 9 year old jug of MMO in the garage, some 2 stroke oil too.  Automatic Transmission fluid (any variety) was the trick on the olden-days leaded fueled cars so I am somewhat in favor of some thin oil type additive in small amounts like you mention Tony.   ;)   In this case I'm leaning towards it being 7 year old plugs with only 250 hours on them having been already plugged up but still fired in the hot southern climate...as being the culprit.

David, I have REM40E's. Is the plug you suggest interchangeable?
Matt
Mountlake Terrace
'69 C-150

hotrod150

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Re: Fouled plug(s) .. Welcome to ownership!
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2010, 09:02:14 PM »
  I never had plug fouling trouble with an O-200 or an O-300 except after using 100LL. Unleaded car gas doesn't foul plugs.
   So #1) does your airplane have a cargas STC?
  and #2) is there a source of ethanol-free car gas somewhere near you? I can't recall where you said you keep your airplane.
   A cargas STC for a 100-horse engine wil cost you $150, plus maybe another $50 for an IA to do the paperwork. Depending on where you buy gas, you will recoup this $200 investment after about the first 130 gallons- about 25 hours or so flying time in that C150.
  The big question is whether E-zero car gas will be around long enough to make it a worthwhile upgrade. But like I said, after the first 25 hours it's pure profit. I'm continuing to hope that the legislators will come to their senses about this mandated (and subsidized) ethanol charade, but that may be a lost cause.

faintfuzzy

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Re: Fouled plug(s) .. Welcome to ownership!
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2010, 09:11:04 PM »
Lean and TCP.
Rodg
Wag more, a lot more.
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Ddayle

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Re: Fouled plug(s) .. Welcome to ownership!
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2010, 09:13:17 PM »
Matt, I looked up the Champion plug code.   http://www.championsparkplugs.com/sparkplug411_manufacturer.asp?manufacturerID=2   You have an extended tip plug.   David has extended tip plug w/ multiple grounds.  .  what I really notice is the big difference in the heat ranges the two of you use.   37 to 40 is several ranges different.  seems like a lot.....  I would like to tell you that with a club  you just fly a different airplane.  NOT.. lol  we both know that is a fantasy. but.    I got an hour in a valley fliers 172 today. Dave
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SkyPilot

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Re: Fouled plug(s) .. Welcome to ownership!
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2010, 09:34:33 PM »
I run 100LL in my Lycoming O-320-E2D engine and boy oh boy, do I ever get fouled plugs.  So much so that on every 50 hour oil-change, I make it our practice to pull each plug and de-foul and gap every one every time. 

Now I also have the power flow exhaust system along with a RAM 160 HP STC in place, which may have something to do with it (I don't really know), and I do fly like 10 hours per week constantly. 

I had some fouling just today on my take off from KAPE.  The engine was moderately rough at 2600 RPM and I noticed that the back two CHTs were almost 200 degrees hotter than the front two.  I proceeded to lean it so things got extra hot in flight and that made it go away after about 10 minutes.  And I will tell you, that after each 50-hour when the plugs get removed and gaped, it's like flying a totally different plane! It zooms! At least until them plugs get all gummy again.

Should I also consider AvaBlend or MMO and would using either one be likely to cut down on the fouling or make it go away? (BTW, I lean on every flight religiously. That red knob is my gas money saver.)
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spyingpotato

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Re: Fouled plug(s) .. Welcome to ownership!
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2010, 09:49:02 PM »
[quote ]
Matt, I looked up the Champion plug code.   http://www.championsparkplugs.com/sparkplug411_manufacturer.asp?manufacturerID=2   You have an extended tip plug.   David has extended tip plug w/ multiple grounds.  .  what I really notice is the big difference in the heat ranges the two of you use.   37 to 40 is several ranges different.  seems like a lot.....  I would like to tell you that with a club  you just fly a different airplane.  NOT.. lol  we both know that is a fantasy. but.    I got an hour in a valley fliers 172 today. Dave

[/quote]

I think the 37's will be in my future.  I'm not worried about detonation given all the extra lead not needed and the low compression.  A plug that holds more heat should help vaporize the lead.

Quote
So #1) does your airplane have a cargas STC?


Yeah, it does.  but there is not anything close enough to make it worth while.  I would get the gas in my honking F250 and all of it's glorius 10mpg (It'll never pass up a gas station) and that wouldn't be thrifty at all.  When I ever get around to passing the tests and can go to Oak Harbor I'd try it out. 

Jeffrey: what EGT's do you normally see? 
Matt
Mountlake Terrace
'69 C-150

R Kelley

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Re: Fouled plug(s) .. Welcome to ownership!
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2010, 10:03:42 PM »
So for those of you getting fouling on the O-200, what cruise rpm are you using?
Randy Kelley
1946 Fleet Canuck
C-FDDW

"If I fly too fast, I might get there too soon"

davidh

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Re: Fouled plug(s) .. Welcome to ownership!
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2010, 10:17:38 PM »
David, I have REM40E's. Is the plug you suggest interchangeable?

The REM37BY plugs I'm now using were swapped in for whatever the standard plugs were - no muss, no fuss.

Does your buck fifty have the 0200?  If so, I believe you should be fine with them (REM37BY).
David Herman
N6170T - 1965 Cessna 150E
Boeing Field, Seattle, WA
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