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Author Topic: Full-Stall Landings?  (Read 4527 times)

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geekxx

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Full-Stall Landings?
« on: October 07, 2009, 09:00:08 AM »
I have a question for the collected wisdom of the forum. Over the past year or so, I have noticed that during landing I no longer ever hear the stall horn. As I flare and pull the nose up, right about when I'd expect the stall to begin, the wheels plant. The landings are not hard, and in fact some of the smoothest landings I've made have been done this way. It doesn't feel to me like I'm doing anything different than I have in the past, but for some reason I can't get it to stall. Am I doing something wrong? Is this a bad way to land? Does anyone else land this way? Note that this happens regardless whether I'm flying a C172 or a C182. During my last BFI I did this as well, and the instructor didn't seem to think anything of it.  Any ideas?
-Jeff
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BruceAir

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Re: Full-Stall Landings?
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2009, 12:29:11 PM »
It's impossible to diagnose without actually being in the airplane, but I'll guess that, as the roundout progresses and the airplane decelerates, you're not continuing to add back pressure. At least not as much as you did before.

Given that you say the landings are smooth, you're probably not flaring too high, so just try consciously to continue smoothly adding back pressure even as the main gear touch.
-Bruce
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Pegasus

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Re: Full-Stall Landings?
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2009, 12:55:01 PM »
If the winds are gusty or variable, you probably don't want to do full-stall landings. In which case, do what you're already doing. The most important parts are smooth and no sideways drift - and it sounds like you've got that part down (so to speak).

  - Ed
A good landing is one you can walk away from,
A great landing is where you can reuse the airplane!
Often seen making hard landings at BFI and S50

tonyrob

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Re: Full-Stall Landings?
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2009, 07:43:34 PM »
Al is probably the best guy here to teach you about full stall landings.
Just do it exactly like he does - but two feet lower   ::)  ::)  ::)

Tony
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Kenny

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Re: Full-Stall Landings?
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2009, 08:12:07 PM »
I rarely hear my stall horn when I'm light weight. Or landing on a big long runway. More relaxed about airspeed I guess. Landing on short strips, I want that horn blaring at the flare and always get it. Doesn't guarantee a "greaser" tho :D
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stutzman

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Re: Full-Stall Landings?
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2009, 09:11:04 PM »
Hmmm, now that you mention it, in 16 years of owning and flying the Bonanza I've never heard the stall horn on landing.

Oh, yeah,  that's right it doesn't have one!

(My early model does have a stall light buried down on the bottom on the panel, though.   Have no idea if it works on landing or not as I am never looking there at that time)
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B  -- Hula Girl
Caldwell, ID

Klaus

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Re: Full-Stall Landings?
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2009, 11:41:28 PM »
Jeff, thanks for bringing this issue up...

   I had an instructor early on emphasize full-stall landings that stuck with me for several years and caused me all kinds of problems especially in windy conditions. Some of the landings were just outright dangerous.

    I'm calling out the many instructors we have here to explain the importance of doing full-stall landings. What is safe about flying at minimal controllable air speeds close to the ground?

 
Klaus Marx
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1956 Tailwheel Piper Pacer PA-22/20-150
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BruceAir

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Re: Full-Stall Landings?
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2009, 02:31:19 AM »
From the description of a normal landing in chapter 8 of the Airplane Flying Handbook:

Quote
TOUCHDOWN
The touchdown is the gentle settling of the airplane onto the landing surface. The roundout and touchdown should be made with the engine idling, and the airplane at minimum controllable airspeed, so that the airplane will touch down on the main gear at approximately stalling speed. As the airplane settles, the proper landing attitude is attained by application of whatever back-elevator pressure is necessary.


From the Private Pilot Practical Test Standards for Airplane (SEL, MEL, SES, MES) (FAA-S-14A with Change 1):

Quote
Normal and Crosswind Approach and Landing:

8. Touches down smoothly at approximate stalling speed (ASEL).


Forward slip to a landing:

Quote
6. Touches down smoothly at the approximate stalling speed, at or within 400 feet (120 meters) beyond a specified point, with no side drift, and with the airplane's longitudinal axis aligned with and over the runway center/landing path.


Good sources of additional information:

Ups and Downs of Takeoffs and Landings (AOPA ASF)

Mastering Takeoffs and Landings (AOPA ASF Safety Advisor)




-Bruce
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Domenick

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Re: Full-Stall Landings?
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2009, 07:50:04 AM »
If the winds are gusty or variable, you probably don't want to do full-stall landings.

I resemble that remark.  This bit me on Sunday at Harvey Field in front of a few hundred people at the Jump Center (anyone know what was going on?).  Gust stopped and I fell out of the sky a couple feet early, just like Al.

In the interest of full disclosure I was carrying extra speed for gust factor earlier in the day for all my landings at BVS which were all perfect greasers. 
Domenick
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Don W.

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Re: Full-Stall Landings?
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2009, 08:22:08 AM »
If the winds are gusty or variable, you probably don't want to do full-stall landings.

I resemble that remark.  This bit me on Sunday at Harvey Field in front of a few hundred people at the Jump Center (anyone know what was going on?).  Gust stopped and I fell out of the sky a couple feet early, just like Al.

In the interest of full disclosure I was carrying extra speed for gust factor earlier in the day for all my landings at BVS which were all perfect greasers. 
Thats because nobody was watching! At Harvey everybody was! Remember that Airbus at Oshkosh? ( It was an Airbus wasnt it?)That should make you feel beter.

Chris Prosser

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Re: Full-Stall Landings?
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2009, 06:03:57 PM »
Wait, there is something other than a full stall landing?  :'(

I've got to try me one of those nosedragger things one of these days.

And no, I don't know how to do wheel landings yet.

--chris
post-solo student sport pilot
Harvey (S43), Champ

Papa Chuck

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Re: Full-Stall Landings?
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2009, 04:55:19 PM »
If I come over the fence a little fast I usually get a greaser with no horn....but if I get the horn over the fence, it stays on thru the flare  and touchdown ('cause I always keep that backpressure in).
Mark Ceccarelli
1978 Cessna 172N
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