Please login or register.

TinyPortal - simple content managment for SMF

News: “Flying is like good music: it elevates the spirit and it's an exhilarating freedom. It's not a thrill thing or an adrenaline rush; it's engaging in a process that takes focus and commitment." - Harrison Ford
Pages: 1 [2]

Author Topic: Radio Avoidance  (Read 999 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

hotrod180

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1096
  • Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitutes!

Re: Radio Avoidance
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2017, 09:15:38 AM »
My understanding is that Whidbey has military radar, which picks up RCS (aka "skin paints"),
but civilian ATC facilities' radar is designed to pick up transponder returns.
So Whidbey would be able to pick up a non-ranspndered aircraft, even a tube-and-fabric one, whereas Seattle Center might not.

groupw

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 917

Re: Radio Avoidance
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2017, 12:16:01 PM »
I've had a few slightly gruff conversations with Whidbey approach and because of that I've asked a few other towers around a question:    If I'm flying over your airspace or near it but not actually in it, would you prefer I talk to you or not?

McChord:  Prefer not
Whidbey: Prefer not

. . . .

That's interesting. A few years ago a Whidbey controller gave a talk at the Puyallup aviation conference. He emphasized several times that they want you to contact them whenever you're even near their airspace. Besides giving them a better view of local traffic, he said that the number of aircraft they handle helps determine whether they stay in business and how much of some other benefits they get.

Roy

hotrod180

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1096
  • Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitutes!

Re: Radio Avoidance
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2017, 05:29:20 PM »
Kida depends on how busy they are.
Besides their own military operations, Whidbey controllers handle the normal ATC duties for airliners & other IFR traffic for their sector
plus all the VFR bug-smashers headed to and from the San Juans.
It can get real busy-- in fact, I've heard "aircraft calling Whidbey approach, remain clear of the class charlie" on many occasions when they apparently just can't keep up.
I've very seldom heard any gruffness, except when a pilot is obviously screwing the pooch.
If you want gruffness & sarcasm, fly a little farther north to KBLI and try their controllers on for size.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2017, 05:31:07 PM by hotrod180 »

mirafone

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 102

Re: Radio Avoidance
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2017, 05:50:23 PM »
I've heard from some pilot peers that Bellingham's ATC has gotten friendlier recently, though I completely agree that in the past, Bellingham was not the friendliest to talk with.
David Wyatt

N2408X C182 KPAE
Commercial Pilot ASEL
WPA and AOPA Member

mirafone

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 102

Re: Radio Avoidance
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2017, 05:51:10 PM »
I've heard from some pilot peers that Bellingham's ATC has gotten friendlier recently, though I completely agree that in the past, Bellingham was not the friendliest to talk with.
David Wyatt

N2408X C182 KPAE
Commercial Pilot ASEL
WPA and AOPA Member

Domenick

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2138

Re: Radio Avoidance
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2017, 08:31:01 AM »
A decade ago I overflew Olympia (OLM). I had been monitoring OLM frequency for some time. I contacted the tower a few miles out to let them know I was going to overfly at 3500 MSL. Guy was gruff. Said, he didn't care since I was out of his airspace. Maybe I woke him from a nap.
Domenick
PA-28-161
Snohomish, WA, Harvey Field, S43

groupw

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 917

Re: Radio Avoidance
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2017, 10:53:29 AM »
My understanding is that Whidbey has military radar, which picks up RCS (aka "skin paints"),
but civilian ATC facilities' radar is designed to pick up transponder returns.
So Whidbey would be able to pick up a non-ranspndered aircraft, even a tube-and-fabric one, whereas Seattle Center might not.
I know that Class C PDX has both -- once my transponder malfunctioned while transitioning through their airspace, and they said they had located me with their primary (the military type) radar. It would be logical that Whidbey would have both like PDX -- being military installations (PDX hosts the Air National Guard) they should be equipped to spot hostile aircraft. But my guess is that, like hotrod speculates, primary radar isn't generally available elsewhere along the ATC corridors.

Hi, Will -- my 4 years in the Air Force were spent repairing the AC&W radars whose scopes you were watching.

Roy

will moffitt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 562

Re: Radio Avoidance
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2017, 05:07:00 PM »
Tube duster Roy:

I was at Selfridge near Detroit and Calumet on Lake Superior.  Good times.  1966-1970.

Scope Dope Will

mneuman

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6

Re: Radio Avoidance
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2017, 05:10:29 PM »
I've had traffic called out as "primary target only" by both center and approach controllers, so I'm guessing most sites have (had?) that ability. In one case, it was a huge flock of birds that the radar was picking up. In another, it was an airplane.

Ddayle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1793
  • I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth.

Re: Radio Avoidance
« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2017, 06:46:24 PM »
I have only talked to Whidbey a few times but they were always nice,,,I fly thru McCord almost every yr near my birthday,,, I  was Born on base,  and served in the 318th there.  I like to circle my birthplace near what is now the museum... they always have been very friendly.  I have also informed towers that  was transiting near their airspace and on their freq,,  OLY & TIW.  the only time a tower  had words with  me was when i came in to BFi in a 182 without a radio on a 7500 code (oops) .
Flying Juliette.  a borrowed 150

Pneuma

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 14

Re: Radio Avoidance
« Reply #25 on: March 09, 2017, 03:10:10 PM »
I've had a few slightly gruff conversations with Whidbey approach and because of that I've asked a few other towers around a question:    If I'm flying over your airspace or near it but not actually in it, would you prefer I talk to you or not?

McChord:  Prefer not
Whidbey: Prefer not

. . . .

That's interesting. A few years ago a Whidbey controller gave a talk at the Puyallup aviation conference. He emphasized several times that they want you to contact them whenever you're even near their airspace. Besides giving them a better view of local traffic, he said that the number of aircraft they handle helps determine whether they stay in business and how much of some other benefits they get.

Roy

Roy,

I 100% agree with your statement.  Whidbey wants to talk to you and to keep you safe.  Heard the same from Puyallup.

Pneuma

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 14

Re: Radio Avoidance
« Reply #26 on: March 09, 2017, 03:15:15 PM »
I generally always call to let them know I'm overflying even if I don't have to.  On a couple of occasions when overflying Whidbey they asked me not to overfly the airfield due to some operations going on, something I wouldn't have been aware of had I not contacted them.  Can't hurt to communicate.

I have been asked not to overfly the field at less than 2500', but being above the airspace, it's hard to imagine how they can tell you not to overfly without issuing a TFR.

This will make it easier to imagine:

FDC 4/0811 SPECIAL NOTICE
THIS IS A RESTATEMENT OF A PREVIOUSLY ISSUED ADVISORY NOTICE.
IN THE INTEREST OF NATIONAL SECURITY AND TO THE EXTENT PRACTICABLE, PILOTS ARE
STRONGLY ADVISED TO AVOID THE AIRSPACE ABOVE, OR IN PROXIMITY TO SUCH SITES AS
POWER PLANTS (NUCLEAR, HYDRO-ELECTRIC, OR COAL), DAMS, REFINERIES, INDUSTRIAL
COMPLEXES, MILITARY FACILITIES AND OTHER SIMILAR FACILITIES. PILOTS SHOULD NOT
CIRCLE AS TO LOITER IN THE VICINITY OVER THESE TYPES OF FACILITIES.
WIE UNTIL UFN
Pages: 1 [2]