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Author Topic: mode c  (Read 936 times)

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will moffitt

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mode c
« on: November 01, 2016, 06:39:24 PM »
OK you guys, many of you are much smarter than I am.  My one place Starduster was a prop job when built but the builder got a little older and put a toyota starter on the 320 and a battery behind the seat.  No alternator.   So I am going thru the airspace stuff with the instructor for my BFR and I mention no transponder, no alternator and flying under the floors in the mode c area.  He said no.  I have been told by people better educated than I that it is OK.  I get conflicting info.    I did not question him because I just wanted out of there and I never go there anyway.  I have read the regs a few times but 90% of my brain is on the left side and that leagleze just gets me lost.  I would just as soon fly down the cascade crest and have better scenery.  But I would like to know for sure so I have that option. 

Thanks
will

smutny

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Re: mode c
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2016, 07:49:28 PM »
You are just fine within the 30NM veil, outside A, B & C airspace, without a transponder in the Starduster.


Sec. 91.215 — ATC transponder and altitude reporting equipment and use.

(3) Notwithstanding paragraph (b)(2) of this section, any aircraft which was not originally certificated with an engine-driven electrical system or which has not subsequently been certified with such a system installed, balloon or glider may conduct operations in the airspace within 30 nautical miles of an airport listed in appendix D, section 1 of this part provided such operations are conducted—

(i) Outside any Class A, Class B, or Class C airspace area; and

(ii) Below the altitude of the ceiling of a Class B or Class C airspace area designated for an airport or 10,000 feet MSL, whichever is lower;
John Smutny

Life is not a journey to the grave intending of arriving safely in a well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, used up, worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Damn, what a ride!

will moffitt

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Re: mode c
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2016, 08:39:53 PM »
Thanks John.  I guess a lot of people assume and they have not researched it because it is a rare question.   Have read the above many times just wondering where the misinformation comes from.

CubFlying.com

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Re: mode c
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2016, 09:43:34 PM »
Will-

I'm based at Auburn, just 8 miles SE of SeaTac.  My PA-11 Cub is no transponder.   The only caveat is:

Quote
In the airspace from the surface to 10,000 feet MSL within a 10-nautical-mile radius of any airport listed in appendix D, section 2 of this part, excluding the airspace below 1,200 feet outside of the lateral boundaries of the surface area of the airspace designated for that airport.

Otherwise, only a few ignorant controllers and pilots complain.

Daryl
Daryl Hickman, CFI

"If you push the stick forward, the houses get bigger. If you pull the stick back, they get smaller. That is, unless you keep pulling the stick all the way back, then they get bigger again."

smutny

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Re: mode c
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2016, 12:09:42 PM »
The key is "...an engine-driven electrical system...".  Lots of Experimentals have a starter hooked directly to a battery, that isn't an electrical system as far as the FAA is concerned.  Lots of folks get confused on that.
John Smutny

Life is not a journey to the grave intending of arriving safely in a well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, used up, worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Damn, what a ride!

will moffitt

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Re: mode c
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2016, 06:04:14 PM »
Funny thing about it, I asked the question at the FAA both at Arlington 2 or 3 years ago  and got the wrong answer.

Will

CubFlying.com

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Re: mode c
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2016, 08:01:33 PM »
Funny thing about it, I asked the question at the FAA both at Arlington 2 or 3 years ago  and got the wrong answer.

Will

From 2007-09, I would fly my no-electric J5 Cub into Renton regularly.  There was one controller ( fortunately no longer there - for many reasons) that would always ask if I wanted him to notify Seattle Approach that I was departing transponder-less.  No amount of showing him the regs would make a difference.  He insisted I wasn't legal. I kept that airplane at Crest and every time I'd takeoff, I'd listen to RNT ATIS.  If he was on the recording, I was going in... :)

Daryl
Daryl Hickman, CFI

"If you push the stick forward, the houses get bigger. If you pull the stick back, they get smaller. That is, unless you keep pulling the stick all the way back, then they get bigger again."

DRW

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Re: mode c
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2016, 06:51:56 AM »
I'd listen to RNT ATIS.  If he was on the recording, I was going in... :)

Daryl

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