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Author Topic: mode c  (Read 683 times)

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will moffitt

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mode c
« on: November 01, 2016, 06:39:24 PM »
OK you guys, many of you are much smarter than I am.  My one place Starduster was a prop job when built but the builder got a little older and put a toyota starter on the 320 and a battery behind the seat.  No alternator.   So I am going thru the airspace stuff with the instructor for my BFR and I mention no transponder, no alternator and flying under the floors in the mode c area.  He said no.  I have been told by people better educated than I that it is OK.  I get conflicting info.    I did not question him because I just wanted out of there and I never go there anyway.  I have read the regs a few times but 90% of my brain is on the left side and that leagleze just gets me lost.  I would just as soon fly down the cascade crest and have better scenery.  But I would like to know for sure so I have that option. 

Thanks
will

smutny

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Re: mode c
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2016, 07:49:28 PM »
You are just fine within the 30NM veil, outside A, B & C airspace, without a transponder in the Starduster.


Sec. 91.215 — ATC transponder and altitude reporting equipment and use.

(3) Notwithstanding paragraph (b)(2) of this section, any aircraft which was not originally certificated with an engine-driven electrical system or which has not subsequently been certified with such a system installed, balloon or glider may conduct operations in the airspace within 30 nautical miles of an airport listed in appendix D, section 1 of this part provided such operations are conducted—

(i) Outside any Class A, Class B, or Class C airspace area; and

(ii) Below the altitude of the ceiling of a Class B or Class C airspace area designated for an airport or 10,000 feet MSL, whichever is lower;
John Smutny

Life is not a journey to the grave intending of arriving safely in a well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, used up, worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Damn, what a ride!

will moffitt

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Re: mode c
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2016, 08:39:53 PM »
Thanks John.  I guess a lot of people assume and they have not researched it because it is a rare question.   Have read the above many times just wondering where the misinformation comes from.

CubFlying.com

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Re: mode c
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2016, 09:43:34 PM »
Will-

I'm based at Auburn, just 8 miles SE of SeaTac.  My PA-11 Cub is no transponder.   The only caveat is:

Quote
In the airspace from the surface to 10,000 feet MSL within a 10-nautical-mile radius of any airport listed in appendix D, section 2 of this part, excluding the airspace below 1,200 feet outside of the lateral boundaries of the surface area of the airspace designated for that airport.

Otherwise, only a few ignorant controllers and pilots complain.

Daryl
Daryl Hickman, CFI

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smutny

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Re: mode c
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2016, 12:09:42 PM »
The key is "...an engine-driven electrical system...".  Lots of Experimentals have a starter hooked directly to a battery, that isn't an electrical system as far as the FAA is concerned.  Lots of folks get confused on that.
John Smutny

Life is not a journey to the grave intending of arriving safely in a well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, used up, worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Damn, what a ride!

will moffitt

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Re: mode c
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2016, 06:04:14 PM »
Funny thing about it, I asked the question at the FAA both at Arlington 2 or 3 years ago  and got the wrong answer.

Will

CubFlying.com

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Re: mode c
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2016, 08:01:33 PM »
Funny thing about it, I asked the question at the FAA both at Arlington 2 or 3 years ago  and got the wrong answer.

Will

From 2007-09, I would fly my no-electric J5 Cub into Renton regularly.  There was one controller ( fortunately no longer there - for many reasons) that would always ask if I wanted him to notify Seattle Approach that I was departing transponder-less.  No amount of showing him the regs would make a difference.  He insisted I wasn't legal. I kept that airplane at Crest and every time I'd takeoff, I'd listen to RNT ATIS.  If he was on the recording, I was going in... :)

Daryl
Daryl Hickman, CFI

"If the highest aim of a captain were to preserve his ship, he would keep it in port forever." - Thomas Aquinas

DRW

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Re: mode c
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2016, 06:51:56 AM »
I'd listen to RNT ATIS.  If he was on the recording, I was going in... :)

Daryl

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