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Author Topic: fully autonomous aircraft piloted by Artificial Intelligence (AI)  (Read 1805 times)

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HalfFullGlass

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fully autonomous aircraft piloted by Artificial Intelligence (AI)
« on: September 15, 2016, 11:37:12 PM »
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20160912-would-you-fly-in-a-pilotless-airliner

What do you think?  Pilotless airliners in 40 years?  How about GA aircraft?  Could AI ever pull off a 'Sully' if geese took out all the engines?  Would AI do better with differential power than the DC-10 crew that crash landed at Sioux City four decades ago?  http://aviationnepal.com/blogs/world-top-10-crash-landing-salute-to-flight-crews/

Domenick

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Re: fully autonomous aircraft piloted by Artificial Intelligence (AI)
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2016, 06:35:37 AM »
I'm not getting in a driverless car either.
Domenick
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Snohomish, WA, Harvey Field, S43

smutny

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Re: fully autonomous aircraft piloted by Artificial Intelligence (AI)
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2016, 08:15:32 AM »
There is a white paper on the future commercial and cargo aircraft that should be carving through European skies.  EASA (the EU equivalent of FAA) had adopted this view as their goal.  It consisted of single pilot commercial airliners and pilotless cargo aircraft.  This is only possible with the developments in ground based air traffic control that can have a more active role in the cockpit.  The Germanwings tragedy with the unstable co-pilot initially slowed down the single pilot issue,  but with advancements in remote control by ATC, the idea has picked up steam again.

I find it unsettling.
John Smutny

Life is not a journey to the grave intending of arriving safely in a well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, used up, worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Damn, what a ride!

hotrod180

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Re: fully autonomous aircraft piloted by Artificial Intelligence (AI)
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2016, 08:41:05 AM »
You can still get a nut operating the controls, whether he's sitting in the airplane or in a remote ATC facility doesn't matter much.

HalfFullGlass

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Re: fully autonomous aircraft piloted by Artificial Intelligence (AI)
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2016, 09:33:43 AM »
There is a white paper on the future commercial and cargo aircraft that should be carving through European skies.  EASA (the EU equivalent of FAA) had adopted this view as their goal.  It consisted of single pilot commercial airliners and pilotless cargo aircraft.  This is only possible with the developments in ground based air traffic control that can have a more active role in the cockpit.  The Germanwings tragedy with the unstable co-pilot initially slowed down the single pilot issue,  but with advancements in remote control by ATC, the idea has picked up steam again.

I find it unsettling.

Interesting.  Is there an English version available?  Do you have a link?

Klaus

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Re: fully autonomous aircraft piloted by Artificial Intelligence (AI)
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2016, 10:02:03 AM »
  Does the average airline passenger realize how little the crew touches the controls today in 2016? Many companies insist on auto-throttle take-offs for fuel savings. Many commercial ATP pilots that fly 200 plus hours in 90 days are required to do three hands-on landings to stay currant. The flight controls are not connected to the little joy stick that tucks away during flight.

  We're already there. Autopilots date back many decades and today's "A.I." autopilots have much faster and accurate turbulence and unusual condition corrections then humans. A.I. does not get tired and unattentive.
Klaus Marx
Juneau, AK (PAJN) & East Wenatchee, WA (KEAT)

smutny

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Re: fully autonomous aircraft piloted by Artificial Intelligence (AI)
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2016, 02:09:47 PM »
Interesting.  Is there an English version available?  Do you have a link?

No, I found out about it in a discussion with a visiting pilot, he pointed me to an Aerokurier article, it was a couple years ago.  I'd have to dig around to find it again.

  Does the average airline passenger realize how little the crew touches the controls today in 2016? Many companies insist on auto-throttle take-offs for fuel savings. Many commercial ATP pilots that fly 200 plus hours in 90 days are required to do three hands-on landings to stay currant. The flight controls are not connected to the little joy stick that tucks away during flight.

True, but it is a human up there to make decisions when the manure hits the fan.  I understand, looking at the Air France accident in the Atlantic, it doesn't mean the human knows what they are doing.  It behooves the passenger to know their airline.
John Smutny

Life is not a journey to the grave intending of arriving safely in a well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, used up, worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Damn, what a ride!

hotrod180

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Re: fully autonomous aircraft piloted by Artificial Intelligence (AI)
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2016, 07:16:48 PM »
Judging from some of the things I've seen in traffic patterns recently,
I think we already have artificial intelligence in charge of some GA aircraft.
And it is not a good thing.

HalfFullGlass

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Re: fully autonomous aircraft piloted by Artificial Intelligence (AI)
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2016, 09:16:35 PM »
... it is a human up there to make decisions when the manure hits the fan.  I understand, looking at the Air France accident in the Atlantic, it doesn't mean the human knows what they are doing.  It behooves the passenger to know their airline.

Dunno that the airline makes a lot of difference.  Even airlines with SOP handbooks that allow pilots to put 'George' on standby still have accidents that have a pilot error component.  It takes a long time (relative to anything that requires quick response) for a 'good' pilot to 'spool up' to meet a rapidly developing emergency when the auto pilot is in control of the airplane.  It's a classic problem:  Complex and capable (but twitchy) aircraft must have a very highly trained, highly motivated, high skill person as the pilot... but the pilot doesn't really fly anything most of the time - that's what George does because very few humans can approach the mind numbing precision of a computer, and NO humans can hold that level of precision for very long.  Unfortunately, the bright and very capable pilots have to 'power down' to survive the boredom.  It's not a 'brave new world' we have before us, but rather one with a whole lot of very boring hours in the cockpit.

hotrod180

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Re: fully autonomous aircraft piloted by Artificial Intelligence (AI)
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2016, 08:22:39 AM »
I think the brand new movie "Sully" illustrates a situation where AI might not have cut the mustard.
Sully & Skiles rejected tryng to land at nearby airport, and instead decided to ditch in the Hudson.
I understand it was clearly demonstrated after the fact that they would have been unable to successfully land at any of the nearby airports.
Would AI been able to do make that same  "out of the box" decision?

HalfFullGlass

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Re: fully autonomous aircraft piloted by Artificial Intelligence (AI)
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2016, 08:55:40 AM »

Would AI been able to do make that same  "out of the box" decision?

The only part of the "out of the box" was the water landing... except it wasn't really "out of the box" since transport category aircraft that fly overwater are equipped to ditch and presumably pilots do sim exercises in same.  I do know I've never practiced nor even thought seriously about landing on a highway and inserting an aircraft into traffic until I did it.  I've read material, and think a bit about ditching considerations among other performance and emergency related items, which I expect you and other pilots have done.  We've also likely read about and thought about where we'd "put it" (plowed field, small vs large trees, stream vs lake vs road vs built up area, etc.) should we lose power in our SE or even ME aircraft.  How "fresh" would that knowledge be in our minds?  Whether that fairly casual 'prep' would be adequate??? who knows.  Dunno.   In the Sully situation, I think AI could be capable of assessing the false options (return to point of origin, glide to some other airport, etc.) and arrive at a different solution that is more solidly within the physics of the problem (land in the river).  Sully's decision making is really the shining star of his emergency... not necessarily the airmanship (which was great, but not the real outlier in the successful outcome).  I guess we'll see how the technology develops.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2016, 02:28:36 PM by HalfFullGlass »

smutny

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Re: fully autonomous aircraft piloted by Artificial Intelligence (AI)
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2016, 12:27:42 PM »
Dunno that the airline makes a lot of difference.

Oh, it still makes a huge difference.  Trouble is, the information is not readily available.
John Smutny

Life is not a journey to the grave intending of arriving safely in a well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, used up, worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Damn, what a ride!

Klaus

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Re: fully autonomous aircraft piloted by Artificial Intelligence (AI)
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2016, 11:15:59 PM »
   The technology is out there and it is going to happen, might as well accept it. :-X

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Klaus Marx
Juneau, AK (PAJN) & East Wenatchee, WA (KEAT)