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Author Topic: Radio Avoidance  (Read 2362 times)

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Domenick

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Re: Radio Avoidance
« Reply #30 on: July 20, 2017, 07:28:15 AM »
I am fully with you on the "homeboy" reporting technique often used, and yes I fly the San Juans regularly and I still don't know where Thatcher Pass or Fisherman Bay (among others) is. In the San Juans I try to always give a miles/direction along with any landmark I might use.

Thatcher Pass is the waterway between Decatur Island and Blakely Island. The Anacortes ferry routes through Thatcher Pass.

Fisherman Bay is the large, almost fully enclosed bay on the west side of Lopez Island. The bay starts about 1NM NNE of the north end of Lopez Airport.
Domenick
PA-28-161
Snohomish, WA, Harvey Field, S43

hotrod180

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Re: Radio Avoidance
« Reply #31 on: July 20, 2017, 08:40:22 AM »
I don't think it's up to everyone to learn all the homeboy points-- I think it should rather be up to the local pilots to make calls that all (not some) of the other pilots on freq can understand.
FWIW I just googled up the official Bellingham airport website-- no area maps or approach diagrams pinpointing these elusive places.
I think tower controllers live in a very small world, even smaller than local-only flyers, therefore they assume that everyone will (and should) know where they're talking about.
KBLI isn't the only offender in this regard-- KBFI has it's reservoir (west) and Seward Park (east), Renton has it's green (now white or colorless) water tower,  KOLM has the state capitol building & Black Lake, etc etc.

N1032M

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Re: Radio Avoidance
« Reply #32 on: July 20, 2017, 08:53:53 AM »
Came thru Whidbey a few days ago from Paine.

The controller was very busy and when I called I was given a squawk code of 0124 but did not receive the usual radar confirmation. As I flew thru their airspace a new controller came on duty and called "Aircraft squawking 0124" I replied and was asked "What are you doing in my airspace?". I told him what happened and he replied "Radar contact at 2500".

A couple of months ago I called Whidbey a few times and did not receive a response, so I went around them to BVS.
Bryan
Roche Harbor

N1032M

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Re: Radio Avoidance
« Reply #33 on: July 20, 2017, 09:05:23 AM »
At FHR the pros often call

Point Caution (Homeboy) Straight in for 16

Cattle Pass (VFR Check Point) Straight in for 34

I've even heard both at the same time. They work it out.
Bryan
Roche Harbor

ErikU

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Re: Radio Avoidance
« Reply #34 on: July 21, 2017, 12:24:45 AM »
I suppose these local landmarks are just great if all your flying is low, slow and within 100 mi of your home airport. You can memorize all of them. What about those of us that travel with our planes,..  don't you want us to know where you are?   "2mi South at 1500ft" works MUCH better.  If those of us listening to you don't have a clue what landmark you are using..   what's the point of even making the call?





« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 12:27:46 AM by ErikU »
BE-35 'S' Bonanza - Seattle - BFI

Flying Dan

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Re: Radio Avoidance
« Reply #35 on: July 21, 2017, 06:30:05 AM »
I'll get a following whenever it makes sense to.  Never had an issue with any tower so far.

Most of my flying lately has been around the San Juans.  I hear local homeboy points referenced a lot and have gotten to know where most of them are.  I don't use them, I always call my Alt and miles from an airport/airfield etc.  That said, I generally don't say anything on the radio until it makes sense to do so.  During the summer, there is plenty of useless chatter and folks talking over each other.  I rely mostly on see-and-avoid.  Sometimes it's a challenge to get in a quick Alt-Location-intent between chatter or loooooooong winded descriptions of locations and intentions.
L8A - Slightly modified

N1032M

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Re: Radio Avoidance
« Reply #36 on: July 21, 2017, 08:05:54 AM »
ErikU,

I don't disagree. I provide this information for the groups awareness, as I doubt you will convert Kenmore and San Juan Air's calls.

I also know a few pilots who are "compass challenged". They have little idea where you are when you call 8 miles NE of the Airport. Homeboy locations help them out. I often use both. I guess this is really a comment on the spectrum of competency among our GA Pilots.

My bigger gripe here in the Islands, is visiting Pilots who don't know RWY Numbers or Traffic Patterns. Of course noone on this forum is guilty of that.

See and Avoid!
Bryan
Roche Harbor

hotrod180

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Re: Radio Avoidance
« Reply #37 on: July 21, 2017, 09:08:13 AM »
Traffic patterns are easy to pick off the sectional (left traffic unless otherwise noted).
Runway numbers not so much, although "landing south" or similar on the radio is better than nothing.
Friday Harbor uses RH traffic for both 16 & 34--
that's always seemed goofy and counter-intuitive to me.
Although I manage to do it right every time,
I do hear people there calling left traffic for landing 16 fairly often.

JMPilot

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Re: Radio Avoidance
« Reply #38 on: July 28, 2017, 09:37:25 AM »
Came thru Whidbey a few days ago from Paine.

The controller was very busy and when I called I was given a squawk code of 0124 but did not receive the usual radar confirmation. As I flew thru their airspace a new controller came on duty and called "Aircraft squawking 0124" I replied and was asked "What are you doing in my airspace?". I told him what happened and he replied "Radar contact at 2500".

A couple of months ago I called Whidbey a few times and did not receive a response, so I went around them to BVS.
If my memory serves me, two way communications are required to transit Class C airpspace (meaning they must respond with your tail number.) If they responded with (aircraft calling, squawk 0124), that is not a clearance. If they did respond with your tail number then I believe you are cleared through even if they didn't verify radar contact, unlike Class B where you must hear the magic word "cleared...."    Also, I use Whidbey a lot, and it is not unusual to get no response the first time you call. Just wait a minute and call again. They can't just not talk to you. You might be in dire straights. Keep trying until you get at least some type of response.

hotrod180

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Re: Radio Avoidance
« Reply #39 on: July 28, 2017, 06:54:05 PM »
...it is not unusual to get no response the first time you call. Just wait a minute and call again. They can't just not talk to you. You might be in dire straights. Keep trying until you get at least some type of response.

"They can't just not talk to you."
I'm not so sure about that.
They do know the difference between a request and an emergency.
I talk to Whidbey pretty often, and while the service is generally quite good,
when they're busy they can and do ignore calls.
However, it's more usual to hear "aircraft calling Whidbey, remain clear of the class Charlie airspace" when they're overloaded.

Domenick

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Re: Radio Avoidance
« Reply #40 on: July 29, 2017, 10:24:03 AM »
At FHR the pros often call...Cattle Pass (VFR Check Point) Straight in for 34 ...
I believe it is Cattle Point. :)
Domenick
PA-28-161
Snohomish, WA, Harvey Field, S43

hotrod180

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Re: Radio Avoidance
« Reply #41 on: July 29, 2017, 09:01:59 PM »
"Cattle POint" is the VFR reporting point on the sectional,
I suspect that the gap there between San Juan & Lopez Islands may indeed be "Cattle Pass".

groupw

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Re: Radio Avoidance
« Reply #42 on: July 30, 2017, 06:20:22 PM »
...it is not unusual to get no response the first time you call. Just wait a minute and call again. They can't just not talk to you. You might be in dire straights. Keep trying until you get at least some type of response.

"They can't just not talk to you."
I'm not so sure about that.
They do know the difference between a request and an emergency.
I talk to Whidbey pretty often, and while the service is generally quite good,
when they're busy they can and do ignore calls.
However, it's more usual to hear "aircraft calling Whidbey, remain clear of the class Charlie airspace" when they're overloaded.
Recently I requested a transition through a Class D airspace (Troutdale OR)  that I fly through often. The tower controller was very busy. My first call wasn't answered, but the second one was answered with my tail number and "Remain clear of the Class Delta." So while I was in contact with the tower which would normally be adequate to enter the air space, I was obligated to obey ATC instructions which kept me out.

Roy
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